What does this do??

[Davo]

NTD 3-Drive Throttle Controller. I saw the group buy and wondered what made this such a popular mod. What is this supposed to improve or correct?

I have just passed 1000 miles on my 2010 FIT and have noticed some problems with throttle control. The car idles in park at about 800-900 rpm when warm. There is little throttle control between 1500 and 2500 rpms unless I really 'feather' the accelerator pedal through that rpm range. This makes low-speed driving through residential areas a bit more difficult when I turn corners and accelerate. The car just takes off!! It seems to have some effect on when the transmission shifts as well but that could be expected. This can also happen at highway speed. When coming up behind another vehicle at 70 mph (+/-) I can accelerate to pass and the car just takes off and I have to reapply the brakes to not get too close to the car that I am trying to pass. The description of the Throttle controller speeding up the butterfly (FI equivalent) made me think that lag time might be the problem that I am having. Does this sound like what you were trying to correct with the NTD 3-Drive Throttle Controller???

Davo

[manxman]

NTD 3-Drive Throttle Controller. I saw the group buy and wondered what made this such a popular mod. What is this supposed to improve or correct?

I have just passed 1000 miles on my 2010 FIT and have noticed some problems with throttle control. The car idles in park at about 800-900 rpm when warm. There is little throttle control between 1500 and 2500 rpms unless I really 'feather' the accelerator pedal through that rpm range. This makes low-speed driving through residential areas a bit more difficult when I turn corners and accelerate. The car just takes off!! It seems to have some effect on when the transmission shifts as well but that could be expected. This can also happen at highway speed. When coming up behind another vehicle at 70 mph (+/-) I can accelerate to pass and the car just takes off and I have to reapply the brakes to not get too close to the car that I am trying to pass. The description of the Throttle controller speeding up the butterfly (FI equivalent) made me think that lag time might be the problem that I am having. Does this sound like what you were trying to correct with the NTD 3-Drive Throttle Controller???

Davo
Hi Dave-
The drive-by-wire electronic throttle in your car does not move your throttle directly as the gas pedal used to do "in the old days" with cable or mechanical linkage between the gas pedal and the throttle butterfly. There is instead a feedback relay between the gas pedal, computer, and the throttle. A given pressure on the gas pedal no longer gives the same direct result of throttle movement that it used to. The end result in todays cars is an annoying lag, or delay, in the throttle opening rate that does not relate directly with the movement of the gas pedal. This bugs some of us, and others don't give a damn.

With the throttle controller from NTD (the best, and conversely the cheapest one) or the T/C from Blitz, the electrical signal from the gas pedal to the computer is multiplied, and correspondingly multiplies the speed of movement of the throttle. At the higher settings of the T/C, the throttle moves at a speed of 4 times faster than stock. The other value of the NTD T/C is the ECO Mode settings, that slow down the throttle movement speed from the stock default speed. This is handy in heavy traffic conditions like a freeway traffic jam or congested city driving. Instead of having to hit the brakes one second after just touching the gas pedal, the throttle/pedal reactions are slowed. Instead of lunge/stop/lunge, you get more of a gentle throttle response (like adding a spring under the gas pedal). The end result is that you waste less less fuel in traffic.

With a T/C you get much better acceleration, less auto trans. "hunting" for the right gear in long uphill drives, and less wasted fuel in congested driving, with no downside. Your gas mileage does not suffer in the highest "Sport" settings, and your acceleration does not get any better without a turbo, supercharger, or NOX. It's a mod that more than justifies its price just in "fun".

[claymore]

Good explanation Dave. I think there is even a setting to slow the movement down a bit for people that are having problems with the very light gas pedal like your problem.

There is another method for curing a light pedal feel. Sorry don't have any photos but some people on the freak site have installed a spring going from the gas pedal arm then the other end up under the dash and the added spring tension helps get rid of the light pedal. If you search on the freak site you should be able to find the DIY and it's simple.

[Davo]

Thanks again for the quick response guys.

Do you think installation of the NTD or the accelerator spring would void the factory warranty? I am sure I could remove the spring prior to taking the car in, if that were ever to be necessary. But I am not so sure that removal of the NTD and Y-harness would be that easy, or, if engine analyzer "codes" might reveal to the dealer that I altered the car/electrical system in any way. Do you think that could be a concern?

David

[manxman]

Thanks again for the quick response guys.

Do you think installation of the NTD or the accelerator spring would void the factory warranty? I am sure I could remove the spring prior to taking the car in, if that were ever to be necessary. But I am not so sure that removal of the NTD and Y-harness would be that easy, or, if engine analyzer "codes" might reveal to the dealer that I altered the car/electrical system in any way. Do you think that could be a concern?

David
Nope- it is no concern at all. Warranty problems with dealers only become an issue if your modification of the car CAUSES the defect that you bring it to the dealer to be repaired. It is not possible for the throttle controller to break anything on the car. The only problem that you could have is if one of the T/C cable connectors between the gas pedal and the T/C electronic control box became disconnected (they lock together so disconnection could only happen if you did not connect them properly on installation).

If you have any fuel system issues that require a dealer visit, just unplug the T/C cable from the OBDII port in the dash in front of your right knee, and stuff the T/C cable under the dash on top of the plastic shelf-like cover above your legs.

It does not matter what mod you add to your car. Warranty repair cannot be denied to you unless your modification(s) are the CAUSE of the problem that brings you back to the dealer for repair.

This is explained in detail in the "Magnuson/Moss Act"- if you do a browser search, you will find dozens of sites discussing the warranty law. What I told you in the last paragraph is the short version of the plain truth.

Another item that may concern some Fit owners who live in states with mandatory Smog inspections (like us lucky Californians). It is illegal to alter the stock intake or exhaust system in any way. Smog inspection stations will refuse to do a smog check on your car if the intake is either non-stock, or does not have a State exemption sticker on the modified intake. Most of us with modded intakes don't care because Smog inspections are not needed until the car becomes 5 years old. When we get to that age, by then either our intakes will have been approved with a sticker, or, we will just put the stock intake back in for the Smog inspection, and put the after-market intake back in after the inspection.

With modded exhaust, any law enforcement officer who chooses to do it can give you a ticket for the illegal exhaust. The fine is $250.00. And then you have to restore the exahaust back to stock condition- othewise you are in line for another fine.

Neither the intake nor the exhaust mods make the car any more of a polluter vehicle than it is in stock form, but these weird rules exist in CA anyway. I have brought my new '09 fit into the dealer service bay with the altered intake, exhaust, third brake light,Throttle Controller, Rear Sway Bar, Rear Air Shocks, and Billet Aluminum front grille--------------------------------

AND ONLY GET COMPLIMENTS from the techs. on the great mods.

I hope that this info. gives you some comfort, and some inspiration in finding ways to make your good car even better, and more uniquely YOURS.

[Davo]

Thanks Dave

That is great news! I will probably take the car to the dealer and let them see if they can improve on the throttle control. That way, I will have notified them that there was a problem, before I made any changes on my own. At this point, they may tell me that "they all run like that". That's okay but I will feel better about making any changes after that point.

Sounds like you've made some great changes to your car. I plan to follow suit over time.

Take care,
David

[manxman]

Thanks Dave

That is great news! I will probably take the car to the dealer and let them see if they can improve on the throttle control. That way, I will have notified them that there was a problem, before I made any changes on my own. At this point, they may tell me that "they all run like that". That's okay but I will feel better about making any changes after that point.

Sounds like you've made some great changes to your car. I plan to follow suit over time.

Take care,
David
Davo,

Obviously you just either paid cash, or committed to pay over time, what feels like a lot of money for your new car. And its maintenance, and the warranty coverage of the car in the event that something goes wrong with it feels like something that the dealer is in charge of. The reality is, YOU are in charge of the maintenance procedures. You can perform those procedures yourself, or you can pay the dealer to do them. The dealer will charge a premium for the materials, and will charge you a high price for profit on the labor. The dealer, and Honda, have nothing to say about which you choose. And the dealer, and Honda, have nothing to say about whether or not your warranty will cover repairs. The warranty MUST cover repairs, unless YOU break the car.

Now about asking the dealer to improve your throttle response- forget it. Throttle response is not adjustable, or "tunable". On a new car fresh off the dealer's lot, it is what it is. The dealer will charge you a $100.00 diagnostic fee just to tell you that there is nothing wrong with the car, and nothing that they can do to improve throttle response. And if you say "OK, no prob., I'll just install a throttle controller and fix it myself", PLEASE remember every word of their "harrumphing" and dire warnings (actually mild threats) about what's going to happen if you screw up your perfectly designed new Honda with hare-brained, b.s., after-market nonsense modifications. And then PLEASE post every one of those words RIGHT HERE on these forums for our entertainment.

Keep in mind that the Magnuson/Moss Warranty Act does not say that a dealer cannot make groundless threats about voiding your warranty coverage over a modification issue, it just says that a dealer cannot legally act on those threats. No matter what you do to your car, you are covered by the factory warranty unless your actions break the car. A throttle controller cannot break the car. A (good quality) throttle controller WILL make the car perform better than it can in stock condition. If you install it correctly, the T/C works. If you don't install it right, the T/C doesn't do anything. Right or wrong, it won't hurt the car.

Don't feel insecure about the control that the dealer might have over you. They have none, and are responsible for earning your business. It is not automatically theirs by right.

[claymore]

Some great advice from Dave (manxman) on a bunch of subjects at the same time.

[manxman]

Some great advice from Dave (manxman) on a bunch of subjects at the same time.
Like Sgt. Joe Friday used to say on "Dragnet": "Just the facts, m'am".