Check Engine Light: P0404

[Tinyvan]

On the way home today I got a check engine light. With a bit of searching I figured out it was Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Open Position Performance. Now I dont know really what that means or how I would go about fixing this or what to look for.

Its probably worth mentioning when I start my car, usually after it sits over night there will be a loud clicking noise, sounds like its coming from the Passenger side. I dont know if it has any thing to do with the EGR though.

Thanks for the Help

[manxman]

This sounds like a Honda warranty issue. I don't remember seeing any other EGR valve problems being posted. If you are still under warranty, it should be be a free repair.

[Tinyvan]

^ I might be past warranty, im not sure. If not I can see them pointing at the supercharger, bigger injectors, Header, cat-delete, and full exhaust as the culprit. If its not a easy fix I will probable still have to bring it in to get fixed.

[manxman]

^ I might be past warranty, im not sure. If not I can see them pointing at the supercharger, bigger injectors, Header, cat-delete, and full exhaust as the culprit. If its not a easy fix I will probable still have to bring it in to get fixed.
Yeah, I guess forget warranty freebies in your case. This may have absolutely NO relevance to your case, but in my old '94 Chevy Astro Van, the engine had a known problem with heavy carbon deposit production. Carbon chunks would break off and stick in the EGR valve, wedging it open, and the open EGR would make the engine stumble and run rough. At a parts store, I found an EGR valve gasket that was made with a screen in it to keep carbon out of the valve mechanism. Problem solved, and never came back again.

Maybe your EGR valve could be easily removed and cleaned- perhaps some behavior in the forced induction system is causing some kind of build-up inside the valve preventing it from working as designed. ??? I dunno. Good luck!

And, if you run out of patience trying to do this fix yourself and don't mind paying the usual $100.00 diagnostic fee at your local dealer service shop, you may wind up with a shop tech who admires well-made machinery and is intrigued with your Fit that is the opposite of routine and boring. Maybe he'll be extra helpful and low priced for a chance to drive a hot Fit once the repair is done. This might be as likely as pigs flying, but in your place I would try everything that I just described.

[VillageIdiot]

It sure sounds like it could be related to the EGR valve for sure.... I remember koi replaced his thinking it might have been stuck but wasn't.... He had to remove the plenum chamber which is the plastic part the throttle body mounts to on the right and the 4 intake runners that run to the cylinder head exits from.... He was pretty green when he did it and had no problems... Is your engine surging when you step on the gas pedal and then release it? If so it is either the EGR or a possible vacuum leak... I think there was recently a post describing some of the things you are talking about on fitfreak.... Was that you?

[VillageIdiot]

Have you hooked up an OB2 scanner to it and get a code if so what was the code???

[claymore]

Are you running a weapon "R" intake manifold? They had all sorts of problems with the EGR.
Anyway the EGR on a Jazz/Fit is very easy to check/change.

If you look in this photo the EGR is the black canister just to the bottom left of the plastic engine cover with an electrical connector on top. there is just two bolts holding it on I forget either 10mm or 12mm wrench size.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/claymore729/Cover1a.jpg

Take it off and look in the bottom and see if it is clogged up with carbon. Use a flashlight and look down the hole in the head. If that is clogged up the whole housing on the head that the EGR bolts onto comes off and you can clean the passages.

This is for another code but it outlines the procedure for checking the EGR. The link is best viewed in internet Explorer and click on the grey boxes on the left for diagrams to go with the instructions.

http://www.hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/98/SAA2E98K72100081123FAAT00.HTML

DTC Troubleshooting: P1491 (12-3)

DTC P1491 (12-3): EGR Valve Insufficient Lift

1. Reset the ECM/PCM.

2. Start the engine. Hold the engine at 3,000 rpm (min-1) with no load (in neutral) until the radiator fan comes on.

3. Drive the vehicle under load for about 10 minutes. Try to keep the engine speed in the 1,700-2,500 rpm (min-1) range.

4. Check the Temporary DTC with the scan tool.

Is Temporary DTC P1491 indicated?

YES - Go to 5.

NO - Intermittent failure, system is OK at this time. Check for poor connections or loose wires at the EGR valve and at the ECM/ PCM.n

5. Turn the ignition switch OFF.

6. Disconnect the EGR valve 6P connector.

7. Start the engine and let it idle.

8. Measure voltage between the EGR valve 6P connector terminals No. 4 and No. 6.



[Zoom figure] EGR VALVE 6P CONNECTORWire side of female terminalsEGR
(PNK)PG1 (BLK)

Is there battery voltage?

YES - Substitute a known-good ECM and recheck. If symptom/indication goes away, replace the original ECM/ PCM.n

NO - Go to 9.

9. Turn the ignition switch OFF.

10. Turn the ignition switch ON (II).

11. Measure voltage between the EGR valve 6P connector terminals No. 2 and No. 3.



[Zoom figure] EGR VALVE 6P CONNECTORSG2
(GRN/BLK)VCC2
(YEL/BLU)Wire side of female terminals

Is there about 5 V?

YES - Go to 13.

NO - Go to 12.

12. Measure voltage between ECM/PCM connector terminals A10 and A20.



[Zoom figure] ECM/PCM CONNECTOR A (31P)Wire side of female terminalsSG2
(GRN/BLK)VCC2
(YEL/BLU)

Is there about 5 V?

YES - Repair open in the wire between the EGR valve and the ECM/PCM (A10, A20).n

NO - Substitute a known-good ECM/PCM and recheck. If symptom/indication goes away, replace the original ECM/ PCM.n

13. Turn the ignition switch OFF.

14. At the sensor side, measure resistance between the EGR valve 6P connector terminals No. 1 and No. 2.



[Zoom figure] EGR VALVE 6P CONNECTORSG2EGRPTerminal side of male terminals

Is there continuity or resistance of 100 kW or higher?

YES - Replace the EGR valve.n

NO - Go to 15.

15. Measure resistance between the EGR valve 6P connector terminals No. 1 and No. 3.



[Zoom figure] EGR VALVE 6P CONNECTORVCC2EGRPTerminal side of male terminals

Is there 100 kW or higher?

YES - Replace the EGR valve.n

NO - Go to 16.

16. Reconnect the EGR valve connector.

17. Turn the ignition switch ON (II).

18. Measure voltage between ECM/PCM connector terminals A10 and A13.



[Zoom figure] ECM/PCM CONNECTOR A (31P)Wire side of female terminalsSG2
(GRN/
BLK)EGRP
(WHT/BLK)

Is there about 1.2 V?

YES - Go to 23.

NO - Go to 19.

19. Turn the ignition switch OFF.

20. Disconnect the negative cable from the battery.

21. Disconnect ECM/PCM connector A (31P).

22. Check for continuity between ECM/PCM connector terminal A13 and body ground.



[Zoom figure] ECM/PCM CONNECTOR A (31P)Wire side of female terminalsEGRP (WHT/BLK)

Is there continuity?

YES - Repair short in the wire between the EGR valve and the ECM/PCM (A13).n

NO - Repair open in the wire between the EGR valve and the ECM/PCM (A13).n

23. Turn the ignition switch OFF.

24. Disconnect the EGR valve 6P connector.

25. Connect the battery positive terminal to the EGR valve 6P connector terminal No. 4.



[Zoom figure] Terminal side of male terminalsEGR VALVE 6P CONNECTORPG1EGR

26. Start the engine and let it idle, then connect the battery negative terminal to the EGR valve 6P connector terminal No. 6.

Does the engine stall or run rough?

YES - Go to 27.

NO - Replace the EGR valve.n

27. Turn the ignition switch OFF.

28. Disconnect the negative cable from the battery.

29. Disconnect ECM/PCM connector B (24P).

30. Check for continuity between ECM/PCM connector terminal B14 and body ground.



[Zoom figure] ECM/PCM CONNECTOR B (24P)Wire side of female terminalsEGR (PNK)

Is there continuity?

YES - Repair short in the wire between the EGR valve and the ECM/PCM (B14).n

NO - Go to 31.

31. Connect the EGR valve 6P connector terminal No. 4 and body ground with a jumper wire.



[Zoom figure] EGR VALVE 6P CONNECTOREGR (PNK)Wire side of female terminalsJUMPER WIRE

32. Check for continulty between ECM/PCM connector terminal B14 and the body ground.



[Zoom figure] ECM/PCM CONNECTOR B (24P)Wire side of female terminalsEGR (PNK)

Is there continuity?

YES - Go to 33.

NO - Repair open in the wire between the EGR valve and the ECM/PCM (B14).n

33. Disconnect the jumper wire from the EGR valve 6P connector.

34. Connect the EGR valve 6P connector terminal No. 6 to body ground with a jumper wire.



[Zoom figure] EGR VALVE 6P CONNECTORPG1 (BLK)Wire side of female terminalsJUMPER
WIRE

Is there continuity?

YES - Substitute a known-good ECM/PCM and recheck. If symptom/indication goes away, replace the original ECM/ PCM.n

NO - Repair open in the wire between the EGR valve and G101.n

[manxman]

Well hell! Who needs to buy their own Fit Service Manual for a GD3. Just ask claymore to post chapter and verse for you. Thank you, John!

[claymore]

Hey we aim to help our members with correct technical information. Unlike some other forums where you would get "I like that ..... what does it do?" type posts.

[Tinyvan]

Have you hooked up an OB2 scanner to it and get a code if so what was the code???

I have a scan gauge hooked up to my car and the code I put in the title is what it showed. I did post the same info over on Fitfreaks, my user name there is MNFit.

Claymore Thank you. I actually do have a service manual and that was the first thing I looked at. Looking threw it though it seems like I need a special computer/scanner to trouble shoot so I figured I would ask.

For right now I have cleared the code and it has not popped back up. When I get a chance im going to take a look at it.

[manxman]

I was talking with member macbuddy last night, and was going to post his suggestion to you today-- use ScanGauge to remove code and see if it comes back. But you were already ahead of us. Good luck with it in the future.

[VillageIdiot]

I would almost swear that the P0404 code came up on my car when I had a vacuum leak problem.... If that is the case the super charger would be trying to engage and the clicking from the right side of the engine could be from the traction drive CVT trying to turn the super charger at below it's functional ability in cold weather and possibly due to the traction oil being for high temperature application .....The addition of the super charger changes vacuum into boost when there is a drop in vacuum and the special traction oil that solidifies under high pressure to allow the steel balls to grip the surface of of the conical shaped impeller drive..... This is why I would look at a vacuum system problem first..... A loss of vacuum is also the result of a free flowing intake and or exhaust system..... I remember that JDMChris was running with the CEL on during the early stages of development of the system on his car with the cat delete pipe with no problems..... If I was having Tinyvan's problem I would be on the phone to Kraft Werks.

[manxman]

Congratulations! TinyVan and VillageIdiot have been unanimously voted the shared title of "Forum Fit Boost Experts". If anyone else comes up with weird symptoms or CEL codes on their boosted Fit, we will just suggest that they PM the two of you for advice.

You guys illustrate the real purpose of car forums, and your help is greatly appreciated.

[VillageIdiot]

I have had the CEL pop up after doing changes on my car's exhaust, intake, boost and most recently the throttle controller.... I am used to it happening by now and don't have to take an anxiety or blood pressure pill or have a shot of Mescal like I did at first....As an old running buddy of mine who was the most intelligent and wise person I have ever known was quoted as saying..... "There is no problem as long as there is a solution, if there is no solution you have a problem".....He died from a congenital defect that he was aware of and knew would be what would cause his death, about a month after climbing Mt.Hood in Oregon last October at the age of 62..... I know I'll never meet anyone like him again and it really hurts me.

[Tinyvan]

I am by no means a expert, lol I still have ALOT to learn about cars. Thanks for the tips Village. Other then the missfireing form dirty spark plugs this is the first time I have had a CEL

[VillageIdiot]

I am by no means a expert, lol I still have ALOT to learn about cars. Thanks for the tips Village. Other then the missfireing form dirty spark plugs this is the first time I have had a CEL
How long have you had the injector and exhaust changes??? What difference have you noticed from the changes?.... The weather here hasn't reached the freezing mark but has been very close in the morning.... I noticed that the intake pipe to the super charger is louder at these times, probably due to an increase in viscosity that would cause the impeller to turn choppily until it warms. Where you live this would be much more pronounced and could result in triggering the CEL and give a code that signifies a vacuum leak.... At $100.00 a bottle for Traction Oil it is too expensive to change to a low temperature formulation unless you can change and keep it for the following season....Maybe a couple of heat lamps to the S/C and oil reservoir would help if the cold weather becomes a problem with the rattling sound at start and CEL.... If the traction oil isn't able to flow the traction drive CV transmission will self destruct.

[Tinyvan]

I found the culprit of the clicking. It looks to be the auto tensioner that came with the SC. I dont know why its doing that or how to fix it so Im going to have to get a hold of kraftwerks and see what they say.

[manxman]

I found the culprit of the clicking. It looks to be the auto tensioner that came with the SC. I dont know why its doing that or how to fix it so Im going to have to get a hold of kraftwerks and see what they say.
Tinyvan/MNFit,

I have a technical interest in all of the threads involving KraftWerks, and was almost willing to buy the S/C kit when I had my GD3. Almost. Every time my fingers itched for what I thought would be the fun project of installing that kit, I had the sense to ask myself, seriously, did I buy this car to spend this kind of money on it, and lose any of the fuel efficiency that it was built to provide? The answer was always---No. And I mean no criticism to anyone whose answer turned out to be Yes.

My interest in this post is in the glitches, and how the owner finds a fix for those problems. Please let us know how the Jacksons help you with the clicking from the tensioner. I had a serious, private discussion with VillageIdiot about the nature of the highly specialized traction oil used in the Rotrex compressor, and I hope some day to find out that there are variations available that are designed for colder areas of the country.

I don't know if temperatures have anything to do with any of your problems. Looking at it logically, it gets just as cold in Denmark where the mechanical and chemical components of your system are made, as it does around the Great Lakes.

Anyway, I have been following your threads here and on the freak site, and I am interested in the outcome in the solution to your problems.

[VillageIdiot]

I found the culprit of the clicking. It looks to be the auto tensioner that came with the SC. I dont know why its doing that or how to fix it so Im going to have to get a hold of kraftwerks and see what they say.
I'm glad it wasn't something worse.... Those things generally last for a long time but I was wondering about whether there might be problems because of the plastic wheel....As large as the diameter is in relation to the stock tensioner, the bearings should last much longer.... I have mine tightened just enough that the belt doesn't slip with the lights and A/C on.

[Tinyvan]

I got a awnser about the clicking, here is the email

Your belt has probably stretched, and you may need to tighten it up on the alternator adjustment. Tensioner clicking is cause by the belt hitting the bottom or the top stop in the tensioner. If you are out of adjustment, it may be time for a new belt.

-Oscar Jr.


So I guess what I need to do is start with adjusting the belt and see if that solves the problem. How easy is it to adjust the belt. Oscar said I need to just move the alternator forward on the slotted adjustment. That sounds as simple as loosening a bolt then sliding it forward and re-tightening.

As for the EGR code he said the SC would not be causing the code. It could be the cat-delete is having a effect on it though. IM going to have to try your guesses suggestions.

[VillageIdiot]

It clicks after starting it up after sitting for a few hours..... That is when I can hear my alternator kick in, so I guess that it stops clicking as the battery regains the charge used during start up....It is sure cold up there where you live.... They gave you a special wrench to loosen the clamp, but if the pivot bolt was over tightened you will have to loosen it also.

[Tinyvan]

I have got the issue with the loud clicking and belt resolved. What had happened was the belt had worn down to almost half the thickness it was and had also stretched. Because of that it was slapping against its self and making the nasty noises I was hearing.

As for the EGR I still have not done any thing with it, the light comes on every once in a while usually when im cruising on the freeway at 2.5K -3K rpms. I just have been resetting the code. I did email Kraftwerks about the code and they said the SC would not have anything to do with it, though my cat-delete might be causing some of the problems.

[VillageIdiot]

I'm glad it is only the belt and not the S/C....Have you done additional tuning by way of air fuel ratio and timing adjustment since adding the large injectors and exhaust mods?....You have me thinking about ordering a belt to keep on hand with the KW belt wrench and tool set I carry with me.

[Tinyvan]

No I have not done any extra tuning, I do have a FI/C sitting around that I do plan on getting installed to replace the super card eventually.

[VillageIdiot]

Cool I have an FI/C some where between here and Florida.... 10 PSI is coming soon.

[claymore]

How long has your first belt been in use? It is under a lot of stress driving a supercharger so it probably would be a good idea to keep a spare at hand.

I wish I had this problem .... that would mean I had a supercharger to worry about.

[Tinyvan]

I had about 14K - 15K miles on the SC and the belt that came with it.

[claymore]

Not bad how hard is it to change?

[Tinyvan]

I actually dint install the belt, I had the shop that installed my SC do it. Talking to the guy though he said it was a bitch to do, lol. Im sure its probable a full days work to do.