NTD 3-Drive Throttle Controller--Preliminary Review

[manxman]

As I have previously posted, I used a Blitz Throttle Controller on my GD3. I liked the Blitz product enough to NOT REGRET spending the approx. $300. group buy price.

Throttle controllers allow you to get all of the acceleration out of a Fit that it can potentially give. You can't get the whole potential unless you have the T/C to eliminate the time lag between pressing the accelerator and the throttle actually opening enough to correspond with the position of the gas pedal. T/C's eliminate that annoying time lag to give you approximately the same instant response that we used to have with mechanical linkage between the pedal and the throttle.

The new NTD 3-Drive T/C works at least as well as the Blitz :), for less than half the price :D. The NTD unit has more levels available in its sensitivity range than the Blitz did. In SP mode, as I recall, the Blitz had 3 levels (SP 1 thru SP3). The NTD unit has seven. I only went up the scale to level 6 in my test. Around here, that was more than fast enough for me. I will get to level 7 at some other time in different terrain.

NOTE: I did get a check engine warning light, but I just kept driving around with several stops and starts of the engine. The check engine warning went away on its own. Apparently there is a learning process that the T/C control box and the car's ECU have to go through to establish proper communication.

If you buy this unit, you will notice a significant and immediate difference in acceleration compared to stock :eek:. One of the push-button selected modes of the T/C is "Nor" for normal, or stock performance. You can feel the difference between normal and SP1. SP6 will get you into real trouble in a parking lot or heavy freeway traffic. The last mode is "ECO", which gives you several levels of slowing down the throttle reaction speed. The ECO mode is meant for use in slow, heavy traffic. One nice safety feature for those of us who have other family members who might occasionally drive our Fits. The T/C always reverts to the "Normal" setting when the engine shuts off. You have to manually adjust it back to the performance modes. This prevents your family from backing up in SP7 and smashing the Fit clear through your house.

I suggest that you mount the controls box with the push-buttons and display screen somewhere OTHER THAN on the top of the steering column. Reason?? The display is a very bright red and will be a huge distraction at night. On my GE8, I mounted the control box directly below and to the left of the large, bottom HVAC knob. My control box sits about 3" above my right knee. I usually drive one-handed with my right hand, and my arm blocks any red glare from the display from bothering my eyes at night. When picking a mounting location, remember that there is no "OFF" switch. The red display will always be lit.

I will shoot and add a photo to this post sometime tomorrow to show where my control box is Velcro mounted, and will describe how to make the same mounting bracket that I did.

[macbuddy]

NOTE: I did get a check engine warning light, but I just kept driving around with several stops and starts of the engine. The check engine warning went away on its own. Apparently there is a learning process that the T/C control box and the car's ECU have to go through to establish proper communication.

Dave,
When you have a chance, pull up that code on your Scangauge2. I am curious to know what triggered that CEL.


...as I recall, the Blitz had 3 levels (SP 1 thru SP3)...

BTW, to refresh your memory, the Blitz has a fourth level, called ECO mode.

[manxman]

Thanks Mike, but apparently you did not read my whole post. As I explained, in the SP mode of the NTD unit, there are SEVEN levels. I only recall 3 levels in the SP mode on the Blitz. BOTH T/C's have an ECO mode (see paragraph 5 in the review). The NTD has more levels than the Blitz in that mode also.

[macbuddy]

Thanks Mike, but apparently you did not read my whole post. As I explained, in the SP mode of the NTD unit, there are SEVEN levels. I only recall 3 levels in the SP mode on the Blitz. BOTH T/C's have an ECO mode (see paragraph 5 in the review). The NTD has more levels than the Blitz in that mode also.

OIC! That is interesting, you are right, the Blitz has only one level of "ECO" mode, can you elaborate on how the NTD offers more levels in it's "ECO" mode? Also, how does one choose each mode/level, is it done through a series of button pushes, or is there a dial to turn? BTW, do you know if there is an online PDF of the NTD manual that we can look at?

-macbuddy-

[manxman]

Last first- I doubt that the NTD manual is on line. The printed manual that comes with the electronics is sketchy at best, with some weird syntax problems in the Chinese to English translation.

Selection of modes, and selection of the various levels in each mode is done by button pushes- one button for mode, one button for "set". The set-up procedure is a little confusing because the buttons do different things with a push, and other thins with a 10 second hold. This is one of those cases where you have to have the thing in front of you, with the instructions. There are too many variables to describe coherently in a verbal description. But using it isn't hard- it just takes a little time to get used to their operating system.

I don't remember how many levels there are available in "Eco" mode, but there are at least 2, and I could definitely feel a difference at level 1. By comparison, I felt nothing at all in my GD with the Blitz T/C. The throttle movement does actually slow down from the speed of movement in stock form. I don't know whether or not the 7 levels in the "SP" mode are necessary. This may be like a 6-speed transmission where the first three gears are much too low in ratio. If you run through 1st., 2nd. and 3rd. just to get up to 40 mph, why not just raise the ratios and eliminate at least one gear? This example is for street, not off road or heavy load hauling. Point being, there may be too many levels in SP mode. I don't know yet- haven't had enough experience with it.

Panson Pan, the NTD Sales Mgr. who is running the GB on that other forum may wind up joining us here sometime in the future. I suggested that he could link my review HERE to his GB on other forums. All he has right now is a bunch of people wondering if they should join the GB and wait for months for something that no one knows anything about. This thread should help some of those people feel more comfortable about buying this product. This thread is also linked on honda-tech to help get the info. out, and of course, to get more visitors to our forums.

[ekonetics]

Good information so far. I've been trying to read up about different experiences with this throttle controller since I am one of the few so far in the group buy. Have you been able to take a picture of where you mounted your t/c? I was driving home trying to figure out where I want it.

Also good job on your review of the progress rear sway bar. I've been running the ultra racing one for months now and it does make a huge difference.

[manxman]

Good information so far. I've been trying to read up about different experiences with this throttle controller since I am one of the few so far in the group buy. Have you been able to take a picture of where you mounted your t/c? I was driving home trying to figure out where I want it.

Also good job on your review of the progress rear sway bar. I've been running the ultra racing one for months now and it does make a huge difference.
I have been watching your posts on ff.net. You're one of the few members who make sense. I will post a photo late today showing where I mounted my T/C. By comparison, the Blitz has a green display which was not quite as distracting to use. The bright red of the NTD makes placement out of your windshield field of view pretty important.

I bought the very first Progress GD3 bar (retail buyer #1) and used it for two years. I had absolutely no doubt that the GE8 bar would be as good as the first one, but I was wrong-- it is better!
Thanks for the compliments!

[twpanson]

manxman,

Thanks for you comprehensive review and I would discuss w/ our engineer to see if we could change the lit color shown on the device.


Panson

[manxman]

manxman,

Thanks for you comprehensive review and I would discuss w/ our engineer to see if we could change the lit color shown on the device.


Panson
Panson,

You are welcome and you deserve it. By all means, see what your engineers have to say about the light color. Keep in mind that you can't please everyone. Whatever color you change to, some buyers won't like it. As long as the present red display is out of your line of sight in night driving, at isn't a problem. My review comment on the color was just an observation, not a complaint.

However, in my opinion, either green or blue might be more universally appealing. I have my Scan Gauge II display set to blue because that is the instrument color of the Fit. But since your device can fit many cars with the right choice of wiring harness, if you make the device to match gauge colors of one car, many other car owners will object.

Since the device settings do not change by themselves, there is no need to keep the display in view at all times. That makes it easy to mount the display out of view, but within easy reach. The red display is certainly easy to see.

[manxman]

macbuddy,

I went for another test drive today on the freeway. The NTD ECO mode has five levels, and you can definitely feel the throttle speed slow down in ECO 1. I went to ECO 4 and turned my Fit into an Aveo (I mean slug). I will definitely use this feature the next time I am caught in a huge freeway jam where the max speed hovers around 5 mph. "Slug Mode" will keep you from having to stomp on the brakes every 30 seconds.

Also, the rpm surge in the SP settings really is apparent when you hit the gas to pass or change lanes on the freeway. Kicking the trans. down a gear or two is absolutely faster on the freeway with the NTD contoller.

I will try to find that CEL code, just don't have time right now.

[ekonetics]

Hopefully more people will join in on the group buy on fitfreak so the price will go down. Either way though I like what I hear so far, its nice to see an ongoing review of the product.

[manxman]

Good information so far. I've been trying to read up about different experiences with this throttle controller since I am one of the few so far in the group buy. Have you been able to take a picture of where you mounted your t/c? I was driving home trying to figure out where I want it.

Also good job on your review of the progress rear sway bar. I've been running the ultra racing one for months now and it does make a huge difference.
Suggested mount for the NTD 3-Drive T/C in a GE8 Fit Sport A/T

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6705/imgp1226p.th.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/imgp1226p.jpg/)

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8633/imgp1237d.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/imgp1237d.jpg/)

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/205/imgp1236.th.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/imgp1236.jpg/)

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7403/imgp1235py.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/imgp1235py.jpg/)

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/9198/imgp1233.th.jpg (http://img682.imageshack.us/i/imgp1233.jpg/)

This is the first location that I wanted to try because it is near the same location in my GD3 where I mounted the Blitz T/C. But since the display is so clear to read, another spot that does not require any fabrication would be the blank 3-switch fascia just in front of your left knee. I think that if you just used Velcro to hold the control box to the surface of that (unless you have installed switches there), even though this area is fairly low, you can certainly reach the push-buttons, and can probably see the display well enough for use.

The last photo shows the hook Velcro attached to the left side of the downward sloping dash face, above the 12V. electrical plug, and to the left of the gear shift knob.

I used 1-1/2" wide, 1/8" thick (but 1/16" thick would also be fine) aluminum strap material from Ace Hardware. Cut a piece at a length of about 4-1/2", and hold the cut piece in a vise vertically. Tighten the vise jaws at the 1-1/2" position on the end of the strap, and bend to 90 degrees using your hands, and crease the bent area by pounding it with a flat-faced hammer as you get close to 90 degrees.

You will also need some Industrial Strength Adhesive-backed Velcro in the 2" width. To eliminate painting, I covered both sides of the entire L-shaped bracket with the soft, loop side of the Velcro. This gives a non-reflective matte black covering. The 2" width provides an extra 1/8" of overhang on the sides of the 1-1/2" wide metal. Once you have covered both sides of the L bracket, just squeeze the 1/8" overhang on the sides together to seal the sides. I buy the Velcro in the 4' long bulk pack from Ace Hardware for around $18.00.

On the back side of the L bracket, I cut a 1/8" wide slot in the Velcro across the entire width, and pulled the 1/8" strip off the back of the bracket. This gives me a place for a zip tie to fit against the face of the dash. The zip tie is used to hold the cable of the control box to keep any slack cable from hanging out over my knee and to keep it hanging vertically downward. The control box has the hook side Velcro on its bottom surface. If I feel paranoid leaving the car in a parking lot, I peel the control box off the horizontal bracket surface, and stick it to the vertical bracket underneath the horizontal shelf. From outside the car, all you can see is a strange black fuzzy shelf sticking out from the dash, but not what is underneath it.

[macbuddy]

macbuddy,

I went for another test drive today on the freeway. The NTD ECO mode has five levels, and you can definitely feel the throttle speed slow down in ECO 1. I went to ECO 4 and turned my Fit into an Aveo (I mean slug). I will definitely use this feature the next time I am caught in a huge freeway jam where the max speed hovers around 5 mph. "Slug Mode" will keep you from having to stomp on the brakes every 30 seconds.

Also, the rpm surge in the SP settings really is apparent when you hit the gas to pass or change lanes on the freeway. Kicking the trans. down a gear or two is absolutely faster on the freeway with the NTD contoller.

I will try to find that CEL code, just don't have time right now.Dave,
Based on your preliminary reviews, I determined that the NTD had all the virtues of my Blitz TC. However, after reading this post, I now see that the NTD has yet more to offer than the Blitz.
It would be interesting to see if that "slug" mode can be utilized to improve fuel ecomony, if so, that would give the NTD an edge over the Blitz.
I like the idea that with the push of a button, I can transform my Fit into a very responsive AutoX machine at will, and then back into a relaxed "hypermiler" for long journeys.
The mere fact that the NTD can match, or even exceed, the Blitz in performance and features is great news for Fit owners. To do so at half the price makes this gizmo sound like a winner!
-macbuddy-

PS-I don't know if you have seen this or not, but here is a helpful link to ODBll code definitions (http://www.equus.com/support/obd2_definitions.php).

[manxman]

Dave,
Based on your preliminary reviews, I determined that the NTD had all the virtues of my Blitz TC. However, after reading this post, I now see that the NTD has yet more to offer than the Blitz.
It would be interesting to see if that "slug" mode can be utilized to improve fuel ecomony, if so, that would give the NTD an edge over the Blitz.
I like the idea that with the push of a button, I can transform my Fit into a very responsive AutoX machine at will, and then back into a relaxed "hypermiler" for long journeys.
The mere fact that the NTD can match, or even exceed, the Blitz in performance and features is great news for Fit owners. To do so at half the price makes this gizmo sound like a winner!
-macbuddy-

PS-I don't know if you have seen this or not, but here is a helpful link to ODBll code definitions (http://www.equus.com/support/obd2_definitions.php).
Thanks a lot Mike. Keep in mind that I only have a few (maybe 2) hours of experience with this new T/C. But so far, I think that your take on my posts is correct. This thing is a bargain that does seem to outperform the better known, and more expensive T/C brand.

And thanks for the code definitions. When that info. was first posted, I printed and filed it for future use.

I am quoting your original message just so that no one misses any of this information. I can't quite say in all honesty that every Fit owner needs a T/C, but these things really define the "spirit" in "spirited driving". But they also add some danger for the "less than adequate" drivers. If you can't develop a "feather foot" or limit your use of the T/C to safe conditions, you will probably wind up in the trunk of the car in front of you. Not recommended for use in the rain or snow in Sport Mode, at least in the high number range.

[manxman]

Hopefully more people will join in on the group buy on fitfreak so the price will go down. Either way though I like what I hear so far, its nice to see an ongoing review of the product.
Eric,
I am impressed enough to suggest that you approach Panson directly and ask for the $140.00 price directly through his email address. If you wait for a successful conclusion of a group buy, you risk the destruction of that group buy by some idiot forum admin. I saved the original Blitz group buy from a site admin (IBAdrian) trying to censor it out of existence on fitfreak. Never trust group buys (but the NTD GB at least has an honest vendor and good product). In most GB's, either a forum admin. will screw it up, or the GB vendor won't keep track well enough for the GB to succeed. Research the fitfreak GB on the JDM console/armrest. I saved that one from being destroyed by STOOL. Unfortunately, JDMChris deleted most of STOOL's posts trying to destroy it. At least in that fiasco, most of the original GB members, including myself and HFF member EXWRX, received our console/arm wrests. Mine lasted 12 hours in my Fit before it was wrecked. I was able to retrieve it from the wreck and resell it to another fitfreak member. Still miss it. It was better than the '09 Honda JDM Arm Rest, which I now have.

[manxman]

Wow! This cross-linking of threads/forums seems to be doing a lot of good for Panson in his marketing efforts. It just-goes-t'-show-ya that the first of anything can command any price they want. I liked my Blitz, but I like my NTD even better- price AND performance. Funny, I never saw a single post from the owner of the other, third, T/C brand! Maybe Pivot never sold any T/C's to any Fit owners ?

[ekonetics]

I might look into asking after I pay some bills first so it was nice not having to pay until close to the end of the month for me. That would be payday for me so it would be a good time for me to pay.

I'm liking this forum more now, since its more information and less other stuff that people don't really care about. I find myself using fitfreak.net less unless I want something from a groupbuy or something.

[manxman]

I might look into asking after I pay some bills first so it was nice not having to pay until close to the end of the month for me. That would be payday for me so it would be a good time for me to pay.

I'm liking this forum more now, since its more information and less other stuff that people don't really care about. I find myself using fitfreak.net less unless I want something from a groupbuy or something.
I understand your position on both subjects. I would rather not waste time waiting for other members to make up their minds and scare up the cash, and would rather pay a few bucks more to get the product now. I also made this particular buy to see if there were enough reason to support the group buy promoter.

If the product was bad, I would destroy the GB. But the product is actually excellent, so I can support the marketer, and maybe get some other intelligent forum members to get more enjoyment from their Fits.

Surprise! I also got some fitfreaks to join our forums- the OFFICIAL ones! where you get the truth without the show-offs and b.s.

When you see what you really want, don't wait for others to make up your mind, or to save a buck or two. My $.02. But don't go broke either.

[ekonetics]

I don't mind paying a little more for parts that I know I will enjoy. If all else fails I will contact the group buy promoter and see if I can work something out.

[manxman]

I don't mind paying a little more for parts that I know I will enjoy. If all else fails I will contact the group buy promoter and see if I can work something out.
I got mine for $140., and I'm just a ff/net lurker. I also promised to help him in his marketing if I liked the product. Guess how that turned out-----.

[ekonetics]

I got mine for $140., and I'm just a ff/net lurker. I also promised to help him in his marketing if I liked the product. Guess how that turned out-----.

Yeah I'm going to ask and see since I don't know how committed the others are to buying one.

[manxman]

Yeah I'm going to ask and see since I don't know how committed the others are to buying one.
Some, maybe many, will be as committed as you are to acting on the Zeta Hood Deflector sale-----------

Poor baby, too many decisions to make on lots of GOOD things for the Fit. What a problem!

[ekonetics]

Some, maybe many, will be as committed as you are to acting on the Zeta Hood Deflector sale-----------

Poor baby, too many decisions to make on lots of GOOD things for the Fit. What a problem!

That is so true. Only thing that sucks is I can't ask for it for Christmas since its mostly forum deals.

[holokai]

I got mine for $140., and I'm just a ff/net lurker. I also promised to help him in his marketing if I liked the product. Guess how that turned out-----.

I tried seeing if he'd sell me one for $140 but that failed. I guess my first mistake was asking him via PM on the "other" forum. Funny thing is, after reading the reviews here, searching the net, talking to Blitz TC owners, and driving a Fit with a Blitz TC, I really don't care whether or not Panson knocks off another $10 from the fitfreak group buy price. The product looks good, seems to function very well (has an actual economy mode), and is way cheaper than the cheapest used Blitz TC I could find for sale ($260).

I guess it's time to PM twpanson on this forum and have him send me a PayPal request . . . :D

[holokai]

Yeah I'm going to ask and see since I don't know how committed the others are to buying one.

I am but I didn't feel like waiting around for the GB to get "organized". Thankfully someone posted the link to this forum/thread. I'm itching to pick one up but I think the 4A harness for the GD won't be in until next week.

-Jason

[claymore]

WOW I'm gone for a couple of days and come back to another FIRST TIME EVER real nice report and review of another GE product. If you want to know the real scoop see it here. Good work Dave.

[manxman]

WOW I'm gone for a couple of days and come back to another FIRST TIME EVER real nice report and review of another GE product. If you want to know the real scoop see it here. Good work Dave.
Thanks claymore. I am making up for my initial whines about the differences between GD's and GE's. I still miss the GD headlights and magic seats, but thanks to some innovative manufacturers, I now have the extra comfort and interior size, along with a punchier engine that is magnified by the throttle controller, and the magic handling that is the trademark of The Progress Group.

I think that we will see a much larger variety of accessories for the GD model because the marketing life span of this design will probably be 2-3 times longer than the GD. That means millions of more buyers looking for goodies, and a much safer investment for manufacturers to meet that new market with good stuff that doesn't exist now.

STRUT & SHOCK makers-- WAKE THE HELL UP!!!!!

[ekonetics]

I'm going to PM and see if I can't just order one soon, since I rather have it either way and $10 isn't a huge difference when compared to what the T/C can do.

For struts and shocks has anyone looked into Showa? They make the Spoon, Mugen, and J's Racing struts and shocks. From what I have heard and read they are really nice for daily driving and good for the track as well. I've talked to a guy from up north and saw him drive on the track with his Showa set-up and it handles nicely.

[manxman]

I'm going to PM and see if I can't just order one soon, since I rather have it either way and $10 isn't a huge difference when compared to what the T/C can do.

For struts and shocks has anyone looked into Showa? They make the Spoon, Mugen, and J's Racing struts and shocks. From what I have heard and read they are really nice for daily driving and good for the track as well. I've talked to a guy from up north and saw him drive on the track with his Showa set-up and it handles nicely.
Eric,
Your intentions with the T/C sound good. I don't think that you will regret being proactive, rather than waiting on a small number of other people to make up their minds. The promoter, Panson, isn't getting rich on your extra $10.00. The more NTD owners who post, the better the word-of-mouth advertising will be for NTD. It was a good move for Panson to offer the GB, but GB's are generally unreliable. Panson has been doing an excellent job of monitoring his own thread, and his replies to posted questions have been immediate and to the point. This is quite unlike another ff.net group buy for a suspension/handling product. I have never seen a Group Buy marketer call the manufacturer of the subject of his group buy a LIAR before. I'll bet that that bad move will have unpleasant results for quite a while.

Re: Showa- we don't have enough mod addicts in our small membership yet for that brand to show up in any posts. Some, like me, absolutely do not want to lower our cars, but would snatch up any quality, adjustable performance struts and shocks. Members macbuddy and EXWRX both have coilover suspension- Megan for macbuddy, and Enduratech for EXWRX. I have not seen any other members post on after-market performance dampers.

I was yelling at Bilstein and others to finally pay some attention to the Fit market after ignoring us for the last three+ years.

[ekonetics]

With the showa dampers they are non adjustable, but the drop with the springs would only be about 1 1/4 inch drop all around depending on which company you go with. I want a slight drop on my car to keep my car handling nicely.

[manxman]

Thanks for the good info. We ought to be discussing this in the Brakes/Suspension forum though.;)

[ekonetics]

twpanson you have a PM.

[manxman]

twpanson you have a PM.
Eric, you have a PM too!

[ekonetics]

I think I'm going to hold off on this for right now.

[manxman]

That's a shame, bur it can be easy to get carried away with an impulse buy. The NTD T/C is a quality product, and I don't imagine that it will go away from the market if you wait until a more comfortable time to buy it. You may have to hunt for it on several forums, or eBay, if you wait until the GB ends on the freaks forum. I suggest that you file Panson's email addy. for later use.

[ekonetics]

Yeah, impluse buys suck. I have it filed for future reference for myself and others if anyone needs it.

[manxman]

Group Buys are a pretty big gamble for their promoters on car forums. The promoter either must buy a fairly large number of the merchandise in the GB, or make some kind of financial arrangement to secure immediate access to the product when the GB ends and shipment must be made.

But the worst part is that he must become an approved vendor on the forum before he can even offer the GB. On the freaks forum, that requires what I feel is an outrageously high vendor fee that must be paid monthly to maintain the vendor status. While he is paying those monthly fees, anything can happen to wreck the GB.

EXWRX and I were in a group buy last year on the freak forum, and one of the psychopathic admins. intentionally tried to destroy the GB simply to show off how much "power" he had (thought he had anyway) in the forums. I prevented the admin. from wrecking the GB, and EXWRX and I actually got our JDM ArmRest Consoles for our GD3's that we had paid for. Depending on how low the GB price is, and what the unit cost to the vendor is, the GB rarely makes a decent profit even if it comes to a successful conclusion.

Panson jumped through all of the hoops to get set up on the other forums, probably hoping for a better outcome than he is likely to see on fitfreak. The main advantage is the word-of-mouth advertising that the GB will generate, and the FUTURE sales that (should) come with a more profitable sales price. I wish Panson nothing but good luck. It is a very nice product and well worth the normal price of $180.00. Actually, since the Blitz T/C sells on eBay for $345. plus shipping, and the NTD unit works better, it is worth much more than the $180.00 retail price.

[holokai]

Is there something I should know about regarding purchasing the NTD TC? Seems like ekonetics was all for buying it and then suddenly decided otherwise. Should I not pm twpanson now? I just verified that I have the funds now so I was looking to purchase a TC this weekend. :(

[ekonetics]

Is there something I should know about regarding purchasing the NTD TC? Seems like ekonetics was all for buying it and then suddenly decided otherwise. Should I not pm twpanson now? I just verified that I have the funds now so I was looking to purchase a TC this weekend. :(

I am all for this product and have decided against it at the moment since their is some stuff i want to pick up from a member on the forum. I am a student right now so funds are limited and Christmas coming up, I can't buy everything I want that comes up. I would buy it too but then I might not be able to buy other people Christmas gifts but myself and the girlfriend won't be happy. :(

Even at the higher price of $180, I would buy this product since it works and its cheaper than the blitz.

[manxman]

Is there something I should know about regarding purchasing the NTD TC? Seems like ekonetics was all for buying it and then suddenly decided otherwise. Should I not pm twpanson now? I just verified that I have the funds now so I was looking to purchase a TC this weekend. :(
To back up ekonetics, if you have the budget, THEN DON'T WAIT- BUY IT. My advice is, do not depend on any group buy to come to a happy ending.

BTW- in the freaks Group Buy on the Blitz T/C where macbuddy and I got ours, the GB was actually CENSORED OUT of the forums. It had been running for weeks, then suddenly just disappeared, and the GB promoter, BlitzUSA, was banned from the forums. I did some detective work and found out that the GB promoter had made a minor mistake in setting up the group buy. Again, some crazy power mad forum admin. (named IBAdrian) just erased the promoter and the GB without a word to any of the people on the GB list. I made a lengthy post that told the truth to the open forums and embarrassed the admin., and the Group Buy was reinstated along with the member status of the GB promoter.

So, to avoid the psychos who run the forum, and the people on the buyer's list that may drop out at any time for any reason, if you want the thing and can get it some other way, DO IT!!!!

[manxman]

I am all for this product and have decided against it at the moment since their is some stuff i want to pick up from a member on the forum. I am a student right now so funds are limited and Christmas coming up, I can't buy everything I want that comes up. I would buy it too but then I might not be able to buy other people Christmas gifts but myself and the girlfriend won't be happy. :(

Even at the higher price of $180, I would buy this product since it works and its cheaper than the blitz.

Eric had an attack of those dreaded diseases (dreaded by mod-mad car owners)
conscience, and responsibility. I respect his reasons for putting off this particular purchase, hope that his Christmas is even more pleasant because of this sacrifice, and hope that when he has the money to spend he can find the NTD T/C easily at an acceptable price. Sorry that you won't get as much attention at your WA state meet.

Thanks for your contributions, Eric! One day, because of your efforts and studies in school, you will have a very successful career and impulse buys won't carry such a heavy load as they do now. I wonder what you will be modding then?

And I have to add this- your communications skills are better than the average Internet forum poster. It's a refreshing change! Not to insult any other (present) hondafitforums member. We have a lot of smart people here. But compared to his age-range counterparts on the freaks forum, ekonetics is a GREAT communicator. The same goes to holokai.

[ekonetics]

Thanks a lot for the kinds words. I ended up spending money that could have bought me a T/C today on presents for others. I think the T/C would make driving much more enjoyable for boring commutes where you have a mix of traffic and open areas.

I hope to mod up the Fit very nicely but I rather do it slowly and not go into debt doing it either. Plenty of stuff I really want but things like the T/C weren't on my list of things I want until now.

[claymore]

Wise decision take care of needed stuff for a good life before modding your ride you have plenty of time to do it.

[holokai]

Thank you for the kind words, manxman. I do appreciate the overall tone of this forum as it allows a lot more productive, objective discussion. Kudos to Eric for being responsible and for providing an honest answer; it definitely helped to clarify the situation regarding the TCs.

I'll hopefully be receiving a throttle controller in the next few weeks and will report back after a tank or two.

[manxman]

Congratultions on your decision, Jason (if I remembered your name correctly). I think that you will get a lot of enjoyment out of this device. I can see where you might be worried with Eric's quick decision to to buy, but you have seen his reasons. Although the ignorant people on "that other forum" have compared my descriptions of good Fit products to the TV pitchman Billy Mays (rip), I would not persuade people to buy a problematic product.

Your own contributions on these forums are very welcome. Please let us know how you like the NTD T/C, and let me know if I can help if you have any installation problems.

Dave

[claymore]

A thought just occurred to me.............. while we were in this discussion we talked about quick opening which we know throttle controllers work on. Is there any way to tell if they also control the closing rate? I mean do they also get rid of the hang on a second before you shift problem with manual transmissions?

[holokai]

In theory the throttle controller supplies a certain voltage to the TB that coincides with a given accelerator position; if all were perfect the throttle would close at the same rate at which it opened. However, one must consider that the motor driving the TB butterfly valve is likely wired to operate only in the opening direction (yay DC current!) and therefore will not actively work to close said valve. Furthermore, the TB on the GD (can't speak for a GE cause I haven't got to look at one) looks to be electrically isolated from the block so there isn't much of a path for any current/charge to return to ground; hence hysteresis and therefore a the slow "closing". It would be intersting to test this closing rate theory out on other DBW cars. It would be nice to put a spring on the valve to help speed along the closing but it would definitely need to be calibrated perfectly in order to avoid throwing off the AFR and stalling the engine on too rich a mix. There's also a lag/transit time between the time the air in the TB actually gets into the cylinder and becomes part of the power stroke. More importantly though is the rotational inertia of the entire engine; perhaps someone with a lightened flywheel can share their experience to verify whether or not a lighter flywheel helps. All in all this is a bit random post with no structure so I'll be off to bed now.

-Jason

p.s. I've heard from the "other" forum that TCs don't help to get rid of the lag as much as they improve response . . . This looks to be another interesting topic of discussion. . .

p.p.s. Four proof-reads/edits later, I think I got all of the spelling errors out =P

[macbuddy]

A thought just occurred to me.............. while we were in this discussion we talked about quick opening which we know throttle controllers work on. Is there any way to tell if they also control the closing rate? I mean do they also get rid of the hang on a second before you shift problem with manual transmissions?

Good question John, I've been wanting to know that as well. When I first test drove the GD3 back in April '06, I tried out both the stick or automatic. The rev "hang" pretty much turned me off to the stick, plus the fact that first gear was a bit too low for my taste. As a result, I took the 5AT home that day.
Maybe holokai and/or ekonetics are running manual transmissions. Perhaps one, or both of them can answer that question for us.
Eric?...Jason?...are either of you guys running a stick?
Cheers,
-macbuddy-

[holokai]

Eric?...Jason?...are either of you guys running a stick?
Cheers,
-macbuddy-

Mike (Hope I remember correctly),

Nope, AT for me (too much stop and go traffic :mad:). It still has a good amount of lag if I sudenly let go of the accelerator; more so when the engine is unloaded and/or in a higher gear.

-Jason

[manxman]

holokai,

I sincerely hope that you do not suffer any of the problems that commonly plague Group Buys (fortunately for your, Panson is doing a GREAT job of monitoring his thread and GB). Meaning, I hope that nothing stupid delays your receipt of the T/C.

Like macbuddy, I have a passing interest in whether or not this device will aid in reducing the annoying habits of the manual trans Fits. That's because mine is also AT.
So, when you can, please let us know if you are the guy who is equipped to give us that info. Got Manual Trans????

[manxman]

Well hell, you sneaked in your reply while I was writing! In the immortal words of Roseanne Rosannadanna, "NEVER MIND"!

[holokai]

One quick note regarding the GB; Panson has been extremely attentive and helpful and even offered to have the TC shipped directly from the factory for the same price as the GB so I won't need to wait for it to be shipped to TX first. I really don't want to wait until the end of the month for th FF GB to end; hopefully me receiving the TC early doesn't affect the count of the GB and therefore the price.

[manxman]

Well, it seems reasonable that since your name is in the GB list, just because Panson is offering a very nice special consideration for you (in light of the general shipping hassles you islanders have to live with), the GB status and price levels shouldn't be affected.

But good luck just the same!

[ekonetics]

I'm running an automatic as well. Something a little off-topic though but I might be testing the GE throttle body on the GD to see if it would improve response as well. The group buy is also growing which is good since the deadline is in a couple of weeks.

Enjoy the T/C Jason and post up your impressions. Its nice to hear from different point of views about products.

[holokai]

I'm not familiar with the GE throttle body, please explain why it might possibly improve response. Actually, this might be a good start for another thread on how to increase throttle response in general.

The group buy has surpassed the threshold and is now into the "$140 shipped" cost level. It seemed like a bunch of people were waiting and all jumped in last night. As luck would have it I jumped the gun a few days too early and ended up ordering the TC over the weekend; no matter though, saving $10 isn't worth the uncertainty of the GB possibly getting dissolved.

I should be receiving a tracking number from Panson as soon as the package ships and will hopefully have it installed two weeks from now. Thanks again to all of you guys for keeping the discussion positive, intelligent, and drama-free. I'll probably start another thread tonight about wheel offset. Til then. . .

-Jason

[ekonetics]

I'm not familiar with the GE throttle body, please explain why it might possibly improve response. Actually, this might be a good start for another thread on how to increase throttle response in general.

The group buy has surpassed the threshold and is now into the "$140 shipped" cost level. It seemed like a bunch of people were waiting and all jumped in last night. As luck would have it I jumped the gun a few days too early and ended up ordering the TC over the weekend; no matter though, saving $10 isn't worth the uncertainty of the GB possibly getting dissolved.

I should be receiving a tracking number from Panson as soon as the package ships and will hopefully have it installed two weeks from now. Thanks again to all of you guys for keeping the discussion positive, intelligent, and drama-free. I'll probably start another thread tonight about wheel offset. Til then. . .

-Jason

Another local member wanted to try the GE throttle body on his GD and when that happens I will start a thread and post up results and pictures so others can see. Hopefully we can find other ways to improve the response on the GE's since that is what I am more interested in.

That sucks that so many members hopped on the GB all at once. At least you will get yours soon and they will have to wait until everyone pays and for the items to ship.

[holokai]

Hopefully we can find other ways to improve the response on the GE's since that is what I am more interested in.

Just for clarification you're referring to GD's, correct? I wish there was an "easy" way to swap the iVtec head onto our GD's. . .

That sucks that so many members hopped on the GB all at once. At least you will get yours soon and they will have to wait until everyone pays and for the items to ship.

Yeah, I'm hoping I at least get my TC a few days before everyone else. I figure if I burn through $10 gas in that time it'll even itself out and I'll definitely harbor no ill will toward the fact that I paid $10 more than those who had to wait a lot longer :p

I'm so excited about getting the TC that I think I'll start looking for a mounting location for the display as well as the main control box. If I recall correctly the display has bright red digits; time to get creative with the mounting. . .

[ekonetics]

Just for clarification you're referring to GD's, correct? I wish there was an "easy" way to swap the iVtec head onto our GD's. . .



Yeah, I'm hoping I at least get my TC a few days before everyone else. I figure if I burn through $10 gas in that time it'll even itself out and I'll definitely harbor no ill will toward the fact that I paid $10 more than those who had to wait a lot longer :p

I'm so excited about getting the TC that I think I'll start looking for a mounting location for the display as well as the main control box. If I recall correctly the display has bright red digits; time to get creative with the mounting. . .

I have a GE, but the test would be for the GD's. My plans on buying some things from the other forum fell through so it looks like I will contact Panson to be put back on the list for a T/C.

[manxman]

Just for clarification you're referring to GD's, correct? I wish there was an "easy" way to swap the iVtec head onto our GD's. . .



Yeah, I'm hoping I at least get my TC a few days before everyone else. I figure if I burn through $10 gas in that time it'll even itself out and I'll definitely harbor no ill will toward the fact that I paid $10 more than those who had to wait a lot longer :p

I'm so excited about getting the TC that I think I'll start looking for a mounting location for the display as well as the main control box. If I recall correctly the display has bright red digits; time to get creative with the mounting. . .
Jason,
Just for starters, try Velco tape mounting the display/control box onto the 3 blank switch fascia in front of your left knee. If you don't like that, then the rest of the cabin is at your disposal. My suggestion would be to get it out of your direct line of sight looking through the windshield at the road.

[manxman]

I have a GE, but the test would be for the GD's. My plans on buying some things from the other forum fell through so it looks like I will contact Panson to be put back on the list for a T/C.
Eric,
I am happy to hear your good news. Sorry that you lost out on whatever else you were trying to buy, but if you can get the NTD T/C at the group buy price, eventually you will have more cash to put toward another attempt to buy that "other thing" again.

But seriously, the NTD is worth the retail price of a Blitz T/C ($345.) because it works better than the Blitz. If you miss the GB for the NTD, the $180. retail price is still a great bargain.

[ekonetics]

Eric,
I am happy to hear your good news. Sorry that you lost out on whatever else you were trying to buy, but if you can get the NTD T/C at the group buy price, eventually you will have more cash to put toward another attempt to buy that "other thing" again.

But seriously, the NTD is worth the retail price of a Blitz T/C ($345.) because it works better than the Blitz. If you miss the GB for the NTD, the $180. retail price is still a great bargain.

I was trying to get the prm intake and hks exhaust for $230. It got sold already but its ok I will get my throttle controller and be happy.

[manxman]

Ooohhhh!:( That WAS a good deal! Trust me, the PRM Intake alone is worth $230. I've got it in my GE8, and love it.

[manxman]

P.s. After Christmas, next year, when you can afford the PRM Intake, I strongly encourage you to buy it. On that other forum, Admin. JDMDOHCSir lied when he posted that the PRM Intake is NOT a Cold Air Intake. Either he does not know, or just plain lied, when he said it isn't a CAI "because it takes in air from the same place as the stock intake".

Maybe my reply to him is still on those forums (I was posting with the user name of "ManxSpirit"). But the truth is that BOTH the GD AND GE STOCK intakes ARE cold air. They both draw air into the engine that comes from outside the engine bay. The GD intake has an air scoop next to the driver side fog light that feeds air through a duct in the fender, through a hole in the inner fender liner, and into the duct-work of the stock intake system. The GE intake is fed outside, ambient temperature air by a scoop and duct just behind the radiator support, which dumps that "cold air" right into the firewall underneath the brake fluid reservoir. That point is exactly where the GE stock, and PRM intakes pick up the air that goes directly into the throttle body.

I deliberately went out of my way to be a giant PITA in several intake threads to make people think six times before buying those Japanese plastic bread box intakes with an open cotton gauze filter just hanging there at the firewall. I predict some major problems in engine performance in freeway driving in a rain storm. Funny, in fact hilarious to me------ those overpriced, badly thought out intakes ARE STILL NOT FOR SALE!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have seen several of the group buy members for the PRM put their intakes up for sale. The strongest complaint has been excessive noise from the intake. B.S. I do not hear my intake at all because my exhaust is louder than the intake. I have a GE Fit that SNARLS when I punch it. But no one has any problem in conversations inside the car, and I hear my music just fine.

So, my strong suggestion is, buy the PRM when you can.

[manxman]

Sorry forum members, for getting off topic with the above post^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
As yet, we haven't had many discussions about intakes, and I wanted ekonetics to get all of my info.

For those who are looking for a new intake, there ARE NONE to equal PRM- 8+ gains in horsepower.

[macbuddy]

For those who are looking for a new intake, there ARE NONE to equal PRM- 8+ gains in horsepower.

If I had a GE8, I might have gone for the Injen CAI (http://www.autoanything.com/air-intakes/77A2576A3569201.aspx) for the fact that it also claims +8 horsepower, and for the fact that I am a California resident (the Injen SP Series Cold Air Intake SP1512P, is CARB pending). Head to head, it would be interesting to see which one actually performs better.
I presently have an Injen CAI on my GD3, and am very happy with the sound and performance. FYI, I previously had a K&N SRI installed that also sounded great, but did not seem to deliver the power as smoothly as does the Injen SP1511BLK. So, head to head, "I" prefer the Injen CAI over the K&N SRI.

-macbuddy-

PS-Dave, let's try to stay on topic! :)

[ekonetics]

I was reading up about the PRM intake when it was being introduced, and never bought it during the group buy since I was busy buying some Ultra Racing bars at the time. That would be the only intake I get for my car so I've been waiting for a good deal but if it doesn't come up I will just order from PRM.

How does the NTD T/C feel during daily driving or do you not use it? I was thinking about putting the controller on the left side underneath the cupholders since it would be easy to access and less of a distraction.

[manxman]

Eric,
I figured that I was "preaching to the choir" about PRM- good choice.

For daily driving, I start and end every trip in mountains. T/Cs excel in mountainous driving. In city/heavy traffic though, I am glad that getting back into "Normal" mode is just two clicks of a button. If you are in any of the 7 "SP" settings, one click on the Mode button puts you in ECO (where you have 5 settings). One more Mode click puts you in "Nor". There are no numbered settings in Nor. The car works as stock.

I think that you will like your proposed mounting location, and I am going to move mine to the left side also to see how I like it. It's OK where I have it now but I still want to try the other side.

I am going to try to find some transparent tape in a blue, yellow, or green color to see if I can easily change the color of the display.

[ekonetics]

That is some good information for me, since I have to go up a lot of hills to get to my home.

[holokai]

Ditto on the information. I have a decent hill to climb to and from work that likes to make my transmission hunt. Having the TC should help a lot but we'll just have to wait and see. I'm actually hoping this helps in traffic as the afternoon commute usually entails half an hour or more of stop and go.

Got a message from Panson, should get it by next Saturday at the latest. In the meantime, let me know if the colored transparent tape works to help soften the red glow =)

-Jason

[manxman]

Jason,
Your transmission will stop hunting, and congrats. on the early ship date. I believe that this purchase will please you and ekonetic (Eric). You both may have to experiment some before you find the ideal SP Mode number for your hills.

Dave

[holokai]

I received the throttle controller on Saturday; two days after it shipped from Taiwan. Initial thoughts/comments were as follow:

-Packaging-
Shipping box had air filled bladders that slid onto the outside of the actual product box to protect it during transit. There was absolutely no damage to both the exterior of the shipping box and the actual product container.

-Box Contents-
Instruction sheet
Display/Remote control module
Main control box (I/O)
Power cord (OBDII tip)
Model specific harness (4A for GD)
Reverse cancel wire (cut to length)
2 pieces of double sided tape

-Installation-
I chose to mount the control box under the dash on the inner side of the dash below the steering column. This location was easy to access and provided a fair amount of room to stash the excess cables. The Display/Remote control module posed the biggest mounting challenge as I was did not want its red glowing digits to interfere with my vision or cause a distraction; especially when driving at night. I chose the mount the module to the upper right of the fuse box cover; it sits low enough that I have to make a conscious effort to see/verify what setting the unit is currently on. I didn't want to write anything until now as I wanted to give myself a few days to play around with the unit and get used to the newfound throttle response.

-SP Mode-
Definitely agree with Manxman that the throttle lag is a lot less noticeable and the transmission doesn't hunt at all when going up hills. It's a lot easier to rev up but the gas needle does drop significantly faster as well.

-Eco Mode-
I've actually been using Eco mode a lot more than SP as my afternoon drives consist of a fair amount of stop and go traffic. It's nice to have the TC display pedal position as this further promotes using a light foot on the gas. The car has less of a tendency to jump off of the line and now drives very nicely in heavy traffic. I haven't noticed a great increase in fuel economy though, as a lot of time with the first full tank of gas was spent in SP mode (you know how that goes). We'll see with this next tank if I can restrain myself a little more :D

All in all there's not much to say about these controllers that hasn't already been said. The group buy on the other forum lasts until the 25th and is currently at $130/unit shipped. I'd definitely jump on it if I was on the fence about getting one as this is by far the cheapest and most effective way to increase your throttle response. As a side note, these are the exactly same thing as the Pivot Racing 2008 model TCs (www.pivotracing.com). I'll update this post a lot more as I gain more experience with the TC.

-Jason

[claymore]

holoki, nice write up.

[ekonetics]

holokai, thumbs up for a great review.

Hopefully the groupbuy doesn't fall apart now otherwise I will just get one by myself and pay a little more.

Also what setting are you using when going up hills and the incline of the hill as well if you know it.

[manxman]

Very good review, Jason. I knew that you would like it!

[manxman]

WARNING!

On the freak site, some unskilled drivers are complaining about their Fit's turning ratio being too quick. They say that they have difficulty in avoiding running into the support columns in parking structures. "Slow the hell down and be careful" is too hard to think up.

If one of these guys is driving in a parking structure where YOU are, it isn't too far- fetched to imagine him doing so in SP 6 or 7. Find cover immediately, have your cell phone ready to dial 911, and wait for an entertaining crash.

Have some Darwin Awards ready to hand out to the deceased's family.

Woop-woop-woop-woop-woop! Hey, Moe!! (Remember teh 3 Stooges??). (misspelling intentional).

[claymore]

Find cover immediately, have your cell phone ready to dial 911, and wait for an entertaining crash.

Have some Darwin Awards ready to hand out to the deceased's family.

Now that phrase deserves an award of it's own

[manxman]

Thank you. The weird shit being posted on the freak site gets stranger every day.

[claymore]

For sure I couldn't quite figure out the thread myself. Nobody knows how hard to step on the gas over there??????????

[holokai]

holokai, thumbs up for a great review.

Hopefully the groupbuy doesn't fall apart now otherwise I will just get one by myself and pay a little more.

Also what setting are you using when going up hills and the incline of the hill as well if you know it.

Sorry for the late reply, been busy lately and haven't had time to get online. I've been using SP2 or SP3 when going uphill to help keep the transmission from hunting. Not sure about the incline of the hill but I know that the transmission will hunt (usually between 4th and 5th, sometimes dropping to 3rd) a lot to keep going up the hill at a constant 55 mph. I did a mountain (well, as mountain as we have here) run earlier in the week and SP2 was more than adequate as it provided quick pickup without being too jumpy/unpredictable. SP4 and up will help if you have passengers in the car and will likely yield similar results as SP2/3 if you're driving solo.

Hope you can get on your hands on one soon. . .

[ekonetics]

Thanks for the reply. I can't wait to get mine since I would like to be able to get up this large hill that I have to go up every time I go home.

That garage thing is funny since I was going through parking garages earlier taking pictures with some civics.

[ekonetics]

At least 16 people wanted and paid for one so hopefully mine ships out soon. Is their anything new that someone wanted to share about the T/C?

[manxman]

At least 16 people wanted and paid for one so hopefully mine ships out soon. Is their anything new that someone wanted to share about the T/C?
That's very good news for all of the group buyers, and it is all due to Panson. He ran one of the best-managed group buys that I have seen in 3 years on fitfreak. And you guys are going to receive a better device, with more usable capabilities, at a MUCH better price than the Blitz T/C.

This has been posted before- just a reminder. If you want to use a 2nd. OBDII device, such as a Scan Gauge II, you will need to order an OBDII "Y" cable splitter- costs about $15.00 on line.

Have some zip-ties handy. Even without a cable splitter and an extra device running on the OBD cable, you will have a lot of slack wires. If you coil up the slack tightly and secure with the zip ties, the wire bundles can just lay on the under-dash panel without moving around. If you need to have a dealer diagnose a problem with the OBD port, just pull out the connector for the T/C and let it hang there until the dealer tech is finished, then plug it back in. No need to remove the T/C for a dealer visit. This is not a "mod" per se, since you have not permanently altered anything on the car, so your dealer tech has no justification to give you any trouble.

Remember, the T/C only plugs into the OBD port to connect to the 12 volt power source to power the T/C. There is only one pin on the T/C plug, which goes into a 12 volt lead in the OBD port.

Now, as a suggestion, buy the Scan Gauge. And the cable splitter. Then you will NEVER need to go to a dealer to pay a $100.00 diagnostic fee to check and clear any trouble warnings on the dash display. Just look up the fitfreak thread that lists the OBDII Code Definitions, and print it for your files. If a warning shows up on the dash display, scan for the code with your Scan Gauge, find the code definition in your list, fix the cause of the problem, and use the Sacn Gauge to clear the code.

The time and money that you save in that one little episode will pay back your small investment in the Scan Gauge. Best places to buy are Amazon and eBay- prices are very close on both sites.

[ekonetics]

I was thinking about getting a scanguage sometime just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll have to take a look at one next Saturday when I go to a Fit meet and see if I like it enough. Christmas this year has me so broke that I might just ask for it for Christmas since I don't know when I can purchase it.

[claymore]

Wish someone would buy me a scangauge for Christmas.

[manxman]

Hey John,
I can't afford a gift, but if you promise to reimburse my expenses, I'll get one and send it to you.;)

[claymore]

Can't have you do that Dave but thanks for the offer. With my old school analog gauges and the thermometer I installed in the intake the only thing it has better is the ignition timing read out. The mileage stuff I wouldn't use anyway as I drive too fast to care. The code reader would be useful.