Electronic Throttle Controllers [Archive]

manxman

10-20-2009, 05:31 PM

When I had my '07 Sport Fit, I got in on the Blitz-brand Throttle Controller group buy on fitfreak.net. At around $300.00, this was an expensive little experiment, but it worked well enough to be worth the cost. It worked perfectly for the few months that I owned it, and when the car was totaled in an accident, it was easy to remove from the car with my three broken ribs, and to resell it to another S.F. Bay Area Fitfreak (thanks for the purchase, Jimmy- I hope you still like it).

Today, there are two more Throttle Controllers on the market for the '09 GE8 Fit. One is being sold by AJ Racing in Canada, priced at $190.00 U.S., and called the "D1 Spec Throttle Controller" (almost half the Blitz price). Unfortunately, it looks like a cheap piece of crap. I don't think that I want anything that cheap-looking in my car, but who knows- maybe its performance makes up for the bad appearance.

The other T/C is being sold by twpanson on fitfreak.net. He is working on a group buy, and is using JDMchris as his official tester. Bad choice- Chris is the guy who posted that Progress Rear Sway Bars don't and can't work. twpanson should have picked a more mechanically experienced tester. But I will give Chris credit for enough sense to be able to truthfully tell whether acceleration on a Fit is better with, or without, this Throttle Controller.

This one is called the "NTD Throttle Controller", and is being sold now on eBay for $170.00- nearly HALF the price of a Blitz Controller for a GE8, and less than the Canadian ugly black box.

From a dead stop, the GE8 is torquey enough so that I don't really NEED one of these things, but I was so impressed with the performance of the Blitz Throttle Controller, I will probably buy the NTD one just to see what it will do with the "grin factor" of driving a Fit.:eek: :eek: :eek:

manxman

10-23-2009, 08:22 PM

For those who are interested-----

Since I owned a Blitz Throttle Controller and used it on my 2007 Sport Fit, and enjoyed it a lot, I was really interested in whether or not a competitive controller that costs half as much would work as well as the Blitz.

According to JDMChris on fitfreak, the NTD controller actually does. But I will not buy it. Why?

Because the NTD controller has to be plugged into the OBD port. I currently have a brand new Scan Gauge II plugged into that port, and I feel that the Scan Gauge will give me more value than the throttle controller.

Using the Blitz controller was fun, but over time, it became less important and less "necessary". It's a fun gadget, and if you do not intend to use a Scan Gauge, then you will enjoy the benefits of a throttle controller. but over time, you will use it less.

claymore

10-23-2009, 11:43 PM

That's a great information advisory manxman. Did the blitz one also plug in the OBD port?

macbuddy

10-24-2009, 12:03 AM

For those who are interested-----

...But I will not buy it. Why?

Because the NTD controller has to be plugged into the OBD port. I currently have a brand new Scan Gauge II plugged into that port, and I feel that the Scan Gauge will give me more value than the throttle controller....

Dave,
If you really want to do this mod, don't give up yet. Take a look at this link, maybe this cable might work:

http://www.obd2cables.com/products/cable-j1962m-to-2-j1962f-y-cable-1ft.html

If you want more links, try Googling similar sites by entering:
J1962M to 2-J1962F

Cheers,
-macbuddy-

BTW-I am good at helping other people spend their money! :)

macbuddy

10-24-2009, 12:16 AM

That's a great information advisory manxman. Did the blitz one also plug in the OBD port?

Hey John,
To answer that question, "No." The Blitz draws it's power through the "pass through" connection that is located just above the accelerator pedal. The OBD ll port is not used to power the Blitz TC.
-macbuddy-

macbuddy

10-24-2009, 04:36 AM

Dave,
Take a close look at thts picture that JDMChris posted:
(click link below)
Picture of NTD main unit (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a374/jdmchris13/throttle%20controller/DSC_0154.jpg)

Notice at 4 o'clock, the unit appears to have both male, and female OBDll ports available for connections. I began thinking about that when I read this particular statement posted by Quek at www.sgstream.org:

(click below to take you to this exact link)
For those who is already owning this please note you can also install another one SP7 + SP7 = SP14 (http://www.sgstream.org/forum/buy-and-sell-car-related-item-s-only/16154-3drive-e-throttle-controller-ntd-2.html#post243439)
How else could he state that 2 units, could be hooked up simultaneously, unless they had provisions to do so.
Well Dave...it looks like you can have the NTD TC and SG2 units hooked up at the same time. Whether both units will perform as advertised, IDK. We will let you pioneer that experiment!:)

-macbuddy-

PS-Like I said, I am good at helping other people spend their money! :)

manxman

10-24-2009, 09:02 AM

Hey, Mike!

I was thinking about looking for a "cable splitter" to use both OBD-connected devices, but as you once said, the T/C loses its newness and its importance after a few months of use. I sure was not going to pay $350.00 for the Blitz unit for the GE8. The low price, and the effectiveness according to the car salesman, made me interested in the NTD box, but I'm still not sure that I need it.

I haven't checked my email yet today, but I will bet that the vendor, twpanson, has answered my message that turned down his sales offer due to the need for the OBD port.

Thanks for your links about the splitter cables. I will check to see if the T/C actually DOES come with two OBD connections. That would make sense- with the T/C in place, you still will have a need to access the OBD port for other reasons- why make it necessary to remove the T/C?

The negative part is, either way, that's a LOT of thick, heavy cables hanging over your right knee- particularly if I have to use the splitter cable. (No reply yet today from twpanson).

Dave

manxman

10-25-2009, 08:14 AM

Well, macbuddy helped to change my mind.
The NTD Throttle Controller vendor, twpanson, posted some much better photos of the control box than I had seen previously, and he also confirmed that there are two receiver plugs supplied in the wiring harness, which means that you can use the T/C with a ScanGauge plugged in at the same time.

So I placed my order through PayPal. Twpanson offered me the low group buy price of $140.00 shipped (that is his eBay price for this device set up for Subarus). The current fitfreak G/B price is $150. for up to eight buyers. If there are more buyers, the price will drop to $140. I got the lower price because I agreed to post supportive comments on this and other forums to help his sales. But I warned him that I only tell the truth.

claymore

10-26-2009, 12:15 AM

Now that's "working together" good thing the members over here like to help each other out.:p

manxman

10-26-2009, 11:45 AM

ANOTHER UPDATE:

I just heard from twpanson (real name Panson Pan, NTD Internet Sales Mgr.).
The Throttle Controller DOES NOT come with two OBD connections. To use it with a second device, like a ScanGauge, you do need to buy a separate OBD cable splitter, which I will do.

My NTD 3Drive Throttle Controller is shipping today from Houston by 1st. Class Mail.

I ordered the maleX2female connector Y cable from OBD2cables.com. With Priority Mail shipping, the total was $26. plus change.

theloxmyth

10-26-2009, 03:48 PM

manxman

10-26-2009, 04:22 PM

Thanks for the e-mail, manxman!

Been busy on The Rolex Forum (http://www.rolexforum.com). :D

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo82/theloxmyth/Rolex%20Forum/DrivingTOG.jpg

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo82/theloxmyth/Fit/DSC04292.jpg
Hey! There's that guy again who pretends that smoked salmon doesn't exist. Nice to see you here, Craig. Come back when you get tired of childish b.s. and posts like "help me unlock my doors" and "help me change my horn", and
JDMDOHC-Dumbshit saying that the PRM is not a cold air intake. He doesn't even know that the factory intake on both the GD3 and the GE8 ARE COLD AIR INTAKES ALREADY. They just are too restrictive for the best performance! The advice on THESE forums is true, and not from first-car teenage owners.

claymore

10-26-2009, 10:34 PM

Hey Craig thanks for dropping in always remember "don't piss off a locksmith". As a bomb tech we used to say "remember me each and every time you turn a key". ;)

Drop by more often we could use some of your lock advice.

ps you lucky dog I wish I had ONE rolex

manxman

10-27-2009, 08:58 AM

manxman

10-28-2009, 02:42 PM

WOW!!! ^^^^^^^
For all of you crooks out there, just look at the above ad. You can buy your very own set of bump keys, so you can easily get into anyone's house without a real key and without smashing the windows. Yeah, "Start bumping today!".

Woops! Now the ad for bump keys is gone. Good.

manxman

10-28-2009, 02:56 PM

Well, I received my NTD 3Drive Throttle Controller, with harness #7A for the GE8 Fit, in the mail today. Panson is a reliable vendor! As a happy past owner of the Blitz Throttle Controller, I have to say that the NTD looks just as good as far as appearance. Maybe better. The control box that is visible and is used in the cabin is about the same height and depth as the Blitz box, but the NTD is only about half the length--- 1-1/8" high, 7/8" thick/deep, 1-3/4" long. All adjustments are done with two push-buttons. Color is black, with white lettering. Very discrete appearance.

I am waiting for the delivery of the OBD2 "Y" splitter cable before I install the throttle controller. I will post a review/comparison with the $345.00 (on eBay ) Blitz T/C once I get this installed.

Thanks to Panson for the group buy price, and to macbuddy for the links to sources for the "Y" splitter cable so that I don't have to remove my new Scan Gauge II.

Every time I think that I am FINISHED with my mods, somebody comes up with a new gadget. Damn it!!!!!

(No, really, keep it up).

"Every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in!!" Al Pacino, "Godfather III" (I think).

manxman

10-28-2009, 04:17 PM

Dave,
If you really want to do this mod, don't give up yet. Take a look at this link, maybe this cable might work:

http://www.obd2cables.com/products/cable-j1962m-to-2-j1962f-y-cable-1ft.html

If you want more links, try Googling similar sites by entering:
J1962M to 2-J1962F

Cheers,
-macbuddy-

BTW-I am good at helping other people spend their money! :)
That's OK Mike. I am good at helping you spend your money as well. You bought your Blitz T/C 'cuz of ME.

theloxmyth

10-28-2009, 04:47 PM

And here is just such a "lock advice" question:

What is the best (hopefully budget priced) "bump proof" dead bolt lock brand? I have two armored steel doors, but the conventional KwikSet locks defeat their protection. I am leaning toward buying the push-button key combo. bump proof type. Are there any secrets short of buying Medeco?

Thanks-
Dave

Methinks Master sells a bump RESISTANT d-bolt.

BTW, been loxmyth'n for 20 years and I CAN NOT get bump keys to work for me! :p :D

Turn me on to a rear sway bar, Dave. (The one that attaches by the seat belt retractors, up high, so I still have room for my loxmyth stuff.)

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo82/theloxmyth/Fit/Hatch.jpg

Viewed from another angle...
http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo82/theloxmyth/Myvan4.jpg

:eek: :rolleyes: :D

TIA,

Craigster : )

manxman

10-28-2009, 04:52 PM

Methinks Master sells a bump RESISTANT d-bolt.

BTW, been loxmyth'n for 20 years and I CAN NOT get bump keys to work for me! :p :D

Turn me on to a rear sway bar, Dave. (The one that attaches by the seat belt retractors, up high, so I still have room for my loxmyth stuff.)

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo82/theloxmyth/Fit/Hatch.jpg

Viewed from another angle...
http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo82/theloxmyth/Myvan4.jpg

:eek: :rolleyes: :D

TIA,

Craigster : )
Sorry friend, those are b.s. Buy the Progress and your handling desires are magically fulfilled, and it won't interfere with your cabin storage. Thanks for "staying tuned'!

Also, thanks for knocking down the paranoia about bump keys promoted by the media (like "The Today Show"). That on-air article blew me away. If they don't work for you, with 20 year's experience, I guess that I don't need to buy a solution to a non-existent problem. Thankyew, thankyew!!

macbuddy

10-28-2009, 05:18 PM

That's OK Mike. I am good at helping you spend your money as well. You bought your Blitz T/C 'cuz of ME.

...and the Progress Rear Sway Bar...and Amsoil Lubricants...and the California Blade...and the Zeta Center console...and the A/C prevent grill...and a set of Loud air horns...and a set of Monroe MA8114 air shocks...and...etc.
FYI, money well spent!:)

thanks,
-macbuddy-

Turn me on to a rear sway bar, Dave. (The one that attaches by the seat belt retractors, up high, so I still have room for my loxmyth stuff.)
...Hey there theloxmyth, the Progress RSB goes under your car, therefore, it does not interfer with the cargo area at all.

manxman

10-28-2009, 08:45 PM

...and the Progress Rear Sway Bar...and Amsoil Lubricants...and the California Blade...and the Zeta Center console...and the A/C prevent grill...and a set of Loud air horns...and a set of Monroe MA8114 air shocks...and...etc.
FYI, money well spent!:)

thanks,
-macbuddy-

...Hey there theloxmyth, the Progress RSB goes under your car, therefore, it does not interfer with the cargo area at all.
Just call me "The Fit Pied Piper".

EXWRX

10-28-2009, 09:27 PM

I feel like Kenchan, but I love my Enduratechs and putting the Progress rear sway back on made them just that more yummy. :D

macbuddy

10-28-2009, 10:47 PM

I feel like Kenchan, but I love my Enduratechs and putting the Progress rear sway back on made them just that more yummy. :D

I feel like Claymore, "What does this have to do with the NTD 3Drive Throttle Controller?" :)

Hehe!
-macbuddy-

PS-Good info on the coilover/RSB question that I've been contemplating...thanks for the post. As result, I will not have to experiment by taking my RSB off. I trust your evaluation.

claymore

10-29-2009, 08:21 AM

Hey I resemble that remark. ;) Good news is I haven't had to yell at anybody here YET.... things run pretty smooth over here.

manxman

11-01-2009, 05:15 PM

My "Y" cable splitter should get here in the next day or so. Installation of the throttle controller should only take about 10 minutes. I am well versed in the performance of the Blitz T/C and miss it after selling it. I will review the NTD unit ASAP.

As I said in previous posts, the throttle lag in a GE is somewhat less than in a GD. If the throttle actually goes to full open in the highest setting with the NTD unit, the GE should have a very respectable launch form a dead stop.

claymore

11-01-2009, 09:07 PM

Our Christopher Columbus of GE modding continues to make progress on bringing the results of another FIRST on his continuing adventure modding his GE. Keep up the good work bringing the news to our members.

macbuddy

11-01-2009, 10:34 PM

If the throttle actually goes to full open in the highest setting with the NTD unit, the GE should have a very respectable launch form a dead stop.

manxman,

When using the NTD throttle controller, don't be disappointed if the throttle position doesn't actually open all the way to 100% at WOT. With my Blitz turned "off", my GD3 throttle position only opens to 78% at WOT. When I do fire up the Blitz, and hit WOT, my SG2 still only displays a 78% TPS (throttle position setting).

When you get your Scangauge2 and the NTD combo operational, check your TPS with, and then without the NTD on, and let us know what the TPS display readings are. If the reading does go to 100%, I would be very surprised.

-macbuddy-

FYI, if the NTD does in fact allow the TPS to open to 100%, I will sell my Blitz and order an NTD unit!:)

claymore

11-02-2009, 12:50 AM

I'm confused does it EVER show 100% opening? If it doesn't why even have that size TB you could have a smaller one that opens to 100%?

manxman

11-02-2009, 07:56 AM

Mike, I will be surprised also if the throttle has any more max-open movement at WOT than it has in stock configuration. The T/C's on the market seem to modulate the signals between the throttle and the ECU, magnifying the ECU output to increase SPEED of the throttle movement. I don't see any performance advantage to increasing the travel of the throttle position past the stock max opening. But we will see. Thanks for the reminder that the Scan Gauge has the indicator of throttle position- I had forgotten that.

I am giving credit to the Honda engineers for designing the throttle body and its components for max performance within the limitations of the smog controls and all other design features of the entire drive train. Considering air flow throughout the entire intake system, 78% opem position of the butterfly in the throttle body may be even better than 100%. The butterfly has mass and various irregularities in its shape. When closed, it site nearly vertical to almost seal the circular orifice of the throttle body. In what we would consider the full open position, it would only rotate 90 degrees to the true horizontal position.

I think that it is possible that in full horizontal position, there may be a negative influence from turbulence or some other aspect of air flow. I would think that if overall engine performance were better with the butterfly positioned at 80%, 90%, or 100% open, that's the way that the stock throttle body would have been designed.
I do not know that to be the case, I am simply supposing.

As we have seen, many mods can increase the performance of our Fits. But we have also seen that most mods have side effects, and most of us know that people who modify new cars are NOT the target market that the car was designed for. I personally LIKE the increased sound produced by my intake and exhaust systems. The average buyer probably would not buy the car from a test drive if it sounded like mine.

manxman

11-02-2009, 03:56 PM

Ok everybody,
The "Y" cable splitter arrived today. If anyone else wants to run a Scan Gauge other other OBD connected device, I highly recommend www.obd2cables.com as a vendor. Very reliable, fast shipping, low price, and GREAT quality products. I spent the afternoon making a Velcro-mount bracket that puts the control box of my throttle controller just below and to the left of the big, bottom, hvac selector knob in the dash of my '09 Fit.

Will start another thread for the test/review/DIY install.

manxman

11-03-2009, 10:25 PM

Well, I got the T/C installed but some things came up and I couldn't test drive it. I CAN say that the T/C does not influence the amount of movement of the throttle at all, only its speed.

Once everything is plugged in, you have to do a set-up procedure so that the T/C can learn the parameters of your particular throttle system. The control box measures and memorizes the closed loop voltage between the gas pedal, ECU, and the closed/at rest throttle. Then you floor the gas pedal and select/memorize "100%" from a menu so that the T/C systems knows the voltage that equals "the WOT position". After that, the T/C system only works within those two min/max voltage limits. The box and controller are made to be used with most car brands that use electronic throttles, so many wiring harnesses are available, and the box needs to operate on a wide range of voltages depending on the car in which it is used. Hence the need to teach it the voltage variations used in your car.

This is not quite the easy plug&play system that the Blitz is- a little more work. But it only costs 1/2 the Blitz price. And for those of us who run another OBD-connected device, the use of the "Y" cable splitter winds up producing a TON of heavy duty cables jammed inside the plastic shelf/under dash cover. I need to re-do my wiring to reduce the size of the present rat's nest of wiring. More in the next thread- I may get it started tomorrow.

holokai

11-05-2009, 04:51 PM

Mike, I will be surprised also if the throttle has any more max-open movement at WOT than it has in stock configuration. The T/C's on the market seem to modulate the signals between the throttle and the ECU, magnifying the ECU output to increase SPEED of the throttle movement. I don't see any performance advantage to increasing the travel of the throttle position past the stock max opening. But we will see. Thanks for the reminder that the Scan Gauge has the indicator of throttle position- I had forgotten that.

I am giving credit to the Honda engineers for designing the throttle body and its components for max performance within the limitations of the smog controls and all other design features of the entire drive train. Considering air flow throughout the entire intake system, 78% opem position of the butterfly in the throttle body may be even better than 100%. The butterfly has mass and various irregularities in its shape. When closed, it site nearly vertical to almost seal the circular orifice of the throttle body. In what we would consider the full open position, it would only rotate 90 degrees to the true horizontal position.

I think that it is possible that in full horizontal position, there may be a negative influence from turbulence or some other aspect of air flow. I would think that if overall engine performance were better with the butterfly positioned at 80%, 90%, or 100% open, that's the way that the stock throttle body would have been designed.
I do not know that to be the case, I am simply supposing.

I really agree with all of what you posted. Didn't want to quote too much but it all made sense. Just wanted to add a little to your post that may make some sense.

Anytime you work with control valves you want their normal operation to fall between 20-80% of their stroke. This is to prevent excessive wear of the seat/disc/plug as well as to keep the valve actuating from high friction areas of its stroke. Given that the throttle butterfly valve in our Fits is not by any means a "severe service" valve, it's still good engineering practice to keep the actuation within this range as it will increase the MTBF. There also might be something to do with the 78% being the limit of the fail safe/close travel region of the valve as I'd contend it would be better for the valve to fail closed vs. fail in place or WOT if something goes wrong. Alas, I'm not a Honda Engineer so take it as you wish. I'm just glad I found these forums; getting tired of some of the characters on the "other" forum :p

-Jason

manxman

11-05-2009, 05:04 PM

I really agree with all of what you posted. Didn't want to quote too much but it all made sense. Just wanted to add a little to your post that may make some sense.

Anytime you work with control valves you want their normal operation to fall between 20-80% of their stroke. This is to prevent excessive wear of the seat/disc/plug as well as to keep the valve actuating from high friction areas of its stroke. Given that the throttle butterfly valve in our Fits is not by any means a "severe service" valve, it's still good engineering practice to keep the actuation within this range as it will increase the MTBF. There also might be something to do with the 78% being the limit of the fail safe/close travel region of the valve as I'd contend it would be better for the valve to fail closed vs. fail in place or WOT if something goes wrong. Alas, I'm not a Honda Engineer so take it as you wish. I'm just glad I found these forums; getting tired of some of the characters on the "other" forum :p

-Jason
Hey, Jason! It's great to hear from someone in the engineering field, or getting there. To back up your statement- in the learning process in the set-up of my NTD T/C, the highest reading that I could get in the WOT (with accel. pedal fully depressed) was 90% on the control box display.

I can't blame you for your disappointment with "the other forum" Wish it weren't so, but that forum's owners want volume of members, not forum quality. That's why they appoint children and idiots as admins. There are more children and idiots looking for something to do on the computer than engineers and other intelligent people.

claymore

11-06-2009, 01:53 AM

Looking at my non-DBW cable operated TB it looks like 100% opening by eyeball it's sure not 78%.

holokai

11-06-2009, 10:18 AM

There's a good chance it's exactly or very near 100% since it has a mechnical fail safe mechanism (spring); this is why cable operated TBs don't have the lag that our Fits do in dropping RPMs when we let off the throttle. A cable operatred TB is actually simpler albiet less tuneable as you are stuck with a only one "throttle position vs % open" curve. With DBW system you'd have to take the fail safe mode into greater consideration since there is not a significant mechanical force driving the TB closed if the TB inlet valve motor fails. This is likely why there is a difference between the opening percentage between mechanical/non-mechanical TBs. Alas, most daily driving is done at the lower/mid end of the valve actuation range. I'd also like to see what the max % open of the TB on an S2000 or other DBW sports car is.

manxman

11-06-2009, 12:40 PM

Well, the only indicator I have is what the Scan Gauge displays, and I believe that the gauge is only giving me the percentage of the total available throttle movement from min. to max. A 100% display on the Scan Gauge does not mean that the throttle disc is at a true 90 degree horizontal position in the round throttle body throat.

I haven't had the time to check the TB position indication on my Scan Gauge. There aren't very many areas in my local roads where I can safely floor the accelerator long enough to concentrate on the Scan Gauge readouts. One of these days the circumstances will be right to get this info. and post it. For now, I want to avoid wrecking a second Fit.

claymore

11-06-2009, 09:08 PM

My understanding of the delay using DBW is for emissions control only nothing to due with power production. With cable operation or DBW with NO delay snap opening of the TB produces some amount of fuel that can't be instantaneously burnt at peak efficiency so more unburnt hydrocarbons are released into the atmosphere. The same thing occurs during snap closing of the TB so the delay is used to prevent these releases of unburnt hydrocarbons only.

Our TB is a simple butterfly valve controlling the movement of AIR only no liquids with their inherent fluid dynamics problems. There is no way a 3/4 opening of the valve would produce more power.

If someone working on their intake system had a spare moment it would be interesting to have someone step on the gas pedal to the floor with the key in run position and someone else look into the TB and see what the position of the TB is at WOT. If it was only opening 3/4 of the way it should be obvious.

holokai

11-07-2009, 12:45 AM

I agree with the snap opening throwing off the AFR as I've worked with boiler control systems with feed forward control built into them that still can't maintain a consistent AFR. There would be no point in any throttle controller opening up a butterfly valve past its stock maximum point because there wouldn't be a significant gain in power from opening 25% more. If you look at increasing the performance of the vehicle from a systematic point of view there would be other, more cost effective ways to increase overall efficiency (lighter rims and tires, etc). Alas, I digress that the butt-dyno still plays a factor in deciding what mods to add =)

macbuddy

11-07-2009, 01:14 AM

If someone working on their intake system had a spare moment it would be interesting to have someone step on the gas pedal to the floor with the key in run position and someone else look into the TB and see what the position of the TB is at WOT. If it was only opening 3/4 of the way it should be obvious.

Hey John, Back in 2008, Ciburri did some experimenting with the throttle body opening on his '07 Fit Sport. Here is some info that Ciburri posted back on 4/29/08:

(click below)
Throttle Controller Info (http://www.fitfreak.net/forums/fit-engine-modifications-motor-swaps-ecu-tuning/21461-throttle-controllers-yea-5.html#post297295)

Back in '08, during an afternoon lunch at a Fit meet, I recall Ciburri's animated discussion on what his observations were, when he performed the exact test that you had mentioned. Ciburri had his friend hit the gas, as he anxiously waited to see how the butterfly reacted. As expected, he visually confirmed that the butterfly would not open more than the indicated ~78%.
-macbuddy-

claymore

11-07-2009, 06:35 AM

manxman

11-07-2009, 07:57 AM

Wow a lot of confusing data out there. Looks like it CAN open more than 78% as seen by Manxman with his 90% opening he saw. There is no way a valve opened to 78% maximum would produce peak power levels. If it was going to ONLY open to 78% at most it wouldn't be at 78% it would be at 100% as that is 100% of how much it can open.
Whoa John! What I described was, in the NTD T/C set-up procedure, one of your steps is to teach the T/C what the system voltage is when you hold the gas pedal fully to the floor. My T/C screen climbed through the numbers, and settled at "90%" on the T/C screen. I was not looking at the actual throttle at all.

I also think that too much is being made of one person's look at the throttle. The bottom edge of that circular disc only moves a maximum total of 90 degrees from closed to full open. How much of that potential 90 degrees of movement our Fit throttles actually achieve is open to question, and can only be answered by the engineer whose idea was used in the Fit design. And, whatever you might observe or measure with the key in the run position may be completely different under various engine load, ambient air temp., altitude, and fuel grade, etc. conditions. To achieve max. fuel efficiency and lowest pollutant level, the degree of WOT may possibly change depending upon many conditions.

One guy saying that it was 78% open at WOT sitting in a driveway is completely inaccurate. Why not 75%? Why not 82%? 83.78%? Unless you have a measuring instrument, not just eyeballing it from a distance, you can only be right by blind accident in saying "it's X percent open".

I agree with your definition of "how open is open". Whatever the throttle disc position is at maximum travel is 100% open. 100% of its electromechanical potential of movement.